Problems dying hair from dark brown to light brown - it turns ginger (after colour remover), then black (after lighter hair dye). Why???Posted 5 months, 3 weeks ago
Hello all, I'm a guy with longer hair (around 10 to 12 inches in length, which I suppose is long for a guy) and decided to join these forums for some advice on different aspects of hair care. First of all I have a question about dying hair. I've been trying to dye my hair from dark brown (around 3.0 on the colour scale) to a lighter shade of brown (around 5.0 to 6.1 - ok technically I know 6.1 is 'dark/ash blonde', but it is more or less light brown too). I use a natural/organic permanent hair dye with no amonia etc from a Greek company called Korres btw, which I buy online.
My natural hair colour is medium to dark brown. However last year due to starting to get some grey hairs, I started dying it dark brown (about 3.0) with permanent hair dye, which made it almost black looking. Recently I have been wanting to dye my hair to a lighter shade of brown, somewhere around 5.0 to 6.1 because I just thought it looked too dark.
I read up about the subject, and most advice said I have to remove the existing dye with a colour remover first, then I can dye my hair the lighter colour.
However I am having problems. Firstly, when I use the colour remover, it turns my dark brown hair to a coppery/gingery colour! (I use Deco Bes colour remover btw, which says you have to apply it to dry hair, leave on for up to 45 mins, then rinse out). Secondly, I have tried dying my hair immediately after rinsing out the colour remover, but it always ends up going back to black, even if I use 5.0 or 6.1 colour dye (it says in the instructions for the Deco Bes colour remover that hair can be dyed another colour right after rinsing out the colour remover, whereas other sources say I should wait a while or even use the remover several times). I tried this process on 3 occassions and always got the same results.
The hairdresser who cut my hair last time said it's perfectly normal for hair to turn a gingery colour after using colour remover. She recommended I try hair dye in a 6.1 to offset the ginger so I can make it light brown, but I tried this and it didn't work (as I said, it just turned my hair black again).
What am I do wrong, and can anyone suggest a remedy? I should add that I have been using straightening irons most days for about a year (with a heat protector spray), and at one stage a lot of styling products etc which might have built up in my hair, so this might have something to do with it. Some other advice I've read suggested I use baking soda in with my normal shampoo to strip the colour. Other advice said just keep dying my hair 5.0 or 6.1 with the same hair dye and it'll eventually lighten. I've also heard that using a clarifying shampoo might help cleanse the hair of any build up. I do use good shampoos and conditioners already btw, with no parabens or sulfates, plenty of argan oil etc, so it can't be my shampoo that's to blame (Hask is my favourite brand right now).
I'm trying to understand the science behind this all, and need to find the best way to solve this. Do I perhaps need to bleach my hair first, before colouring it light brown? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
by BridgetSPosted 5 months, 3 weeks ago
Hi, I've never experienced this, but have read that when you dye hair after having used a color remover, the previous day can reoxydise. This happens when there are still too many molecules in the hair, which has not been rinsed out long enough.; So when using a color remover, you need to rince the hair a very long time, and then wash it several times with a clarifying shampoo, rincing each time a lot, before dying it again. Good luck!
Posted 5 months, 3 weeks ago
BridgetS wrote: Hi, I've never experienced this, but have read that when you dye hair after having used a color remover, the previous day can reoxydise. This happens when there are still too many molecules in the hair, which has not been rinsed out long enough.; So when using a color remover, you need to rince the hair a very long time, and then wash it several times with a clarifying shampoo, rincing each time a lot, before dying it again. Good luck!
Hello BridgetS, thanks for your reply. What exactly do you mean by 'reoxydise'? Is that why it turns ginger and why the hair won't lighten to the new colour?
Ok, well I will try your advice and see what happens! I will keep you posted.
by AndyaPosted 5 months, 3 weeks ago
Thank you for posting this question. Color removers work okay to pretty good to remove permanent dyes in natural hair colors. This is because permanent hair dyes contain developers. A color remover will reduce the color molecules of the permanent dye to make those color molecules easier to remove from the hair. Suggest the hair should be rinsed thoroughly at least twice and washed twice to make sure all the reduced color molecules have been removed from the hair. Lets say the hair was rinsed only once after using a color remover. Reduced color molecules then remain within the hair. With the reduced color molecules remaining in the hair a person decides to apply bleach to further lighten the hair color. Bleach is an oxidizing agent. One chemical process is oxidation/reduction. Reduction is the opposite of oxidation. Bleach will oxidize the reduced color molecules. This is like putting gasoline into the empty gas tank of a car to make the car engine run again. This is like recharging a dead battery. The result of bleach applied to reduced color molecules is the color that was previously removed from the hair will come back to the hair.
.These are my suggestions and opinions.
by vivienne StaffPosted 5 months, 3 weeks ago
As stated colour remover works on dye molecules by making them smaller so they can be more easily rinsed out of your hair. This processes turns them colourless, but they can still remain in your hair. If you follow up this process with developer (mixed with more bleached and permanent dyes), the reaction from the colour remover is essentially reversed and you are back to your starting point. In order to avoid this, you need extremely thorough rinsing (1-2 hours) in warm to hot water and clarifying shampoo and lots of scrubbing and agitation on your hair to remove as many of the colourless dye molecules as possible. This takes a long time, so I usually just split it up in multiple days, usually shampooing each day for seven days. You can test if the rinsing is sufficient by applying just developer to a strand. If it darkens within a few minutes, you need more rinsing.
As for the orange, that is normal, as permanent dye can often lift your hair's natural pigment slightly, resulting in more warmth.
I will say, I'm not sure how successful you'll be getting to a level 6 with lots of orange. You may need to follow up the colour remover with more bleach.
Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Andya and Vivienne for your detailed replies. This is starting to make sense to me now. You are correct, I did not rinse my hair for very long after rinsing the colour remover out - probably only a minute or 2 at most - and I did not use a clarifying shampoo either. I will try rinsing/washing my hair 7 days in row and with a clarifying shampoo before dying it again and see how it goes.
As far as bleaching - I have never tried it. What is the difference between colour removal and bleaching? Do you think I'll need to bleach my hair to be able to successfully dye it to a 5.0 or 6.1 shade, or should it work ok with colour removal and lots of rinsing + clarifying shampoo as suggested? I mean, it's not like I'm trying to dye it light blonde or something extreme. I only want to lighten it a few shades from dark brown to light brown!
Finally, what are your thoughts on natural remedies to remove hair dye, like using baking soda or vitamin c mixed with your shampoo, etc? I suppose I could give these a try as they're inexpensive.
You'll have to forgive my questions - as a guy, even a long haired one, I'm not as clued up on all this stuff as most women are (although I'm getting there!). Thanks again for your replies by the way.
by AndyaPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
Sorry for the double post.
You ae welcome. Questions are probably like the gasoline within an engine that makes this web site/forum run. I hope many people read your question and experience about using color removers. Thank you for posting this question.
Gender does not matter regarding hair. Compliments on my hair I let go to my head...lol. Everyone has a certain amount of knowledge in many different areas. Everyone can learn something new. I humbly consider myself a gentleman, a clown, a scientist, with over 30 years of non-professional experience with dyes, toners, and bleach. Myself always learning something new in many different areas.
Speaking of different areas, baking soda mixed with shampoo for me worked about as well as a clarifying shampoo. Clarifying shampoo is harsher than a regular shampoo and used to remove build up in hair. Vitamin C method I have never used. People have posted on this site that Vitamin C method is more effective than a clarifying shampoo and like a color remover. Different methods of fading color will be more effective one person than on another person. Suggest try different fading methods and which one you like best. Fading methods for removing color will make the hair more dry. Very dry hair will break. Hot water helps to remove color and cold water helps to keep color. Hard water helps to remove color and soft water helps to keep color. Hard water is harsher than soft water because, hard water contains larger amounts of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate.
Best of luck. These are my humble suggestions and opinions based on over 30 years of non-professional experience.
by vivienne StaffPosted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
Colour removers generally only impact permanent dye and can't remove the natural pigment from your hair, which bleach works on both. However, in my experience, colour removers do not do as much permanent damage as bleach, so I usually prefer to start there, because it may mean that I can use a less harsh mixture with the bleach.
As for needing extra lift after colour remover, I'd try just a strand test initially with the dye you plan to use and see if it turns out as you'd like. If not, that's when you need the bleach. Typically, the issue with trying to get a dark blonde/light brown shade is that the colour will be too warm/orange unless you get your base to a level 7 or lighter. That's because the warmer pigments naturally present in dark hair lift more slowly than the cooler ones. That's why when you bleach hair, it goes orange before going blonde instead of just getting progressively lighter brown.
As for vitamin C and baking soda, I find they work better on semi-permanent dyes (ones that don't need mixing), though they can fade permanent dyes slightly. I don't think they are enough on their own, but they can help somewhat. However, they are also quite drying, so don't overdo it b
Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
Ok, I will try out all these suggestions in the near future and let you know how it goes. I think I will try and dye my hair a 5.0 shade as 6.1 might be a bit too much. Here's hoping it works in the end. Thanks again for your kind help!