I would love to tone my hair, but I'm getting no wherePosted 3 years, 2 months ago
Hello All, I recently bleached my hair in hopes of matching my hair to my graying/silver/whitish roots. My hair is bleached to a level 9-10 on the top and sides, and a level 8-9 in the back due to some stubborn box dye staining, so I know I'll need to at least bleach the back again in the future to get it lighter, but for now, I'm just letting it rest and recover from the bleaching while moisturizing/hydrating it like crazy.
My biggest issue is that my hair is so porous right now from the processing that it quickly overtones to unwanted colors, but lol luckily the unwanted colors wash out within just a couple of washings anyway because it is so porous (So I guess that's one plus for high porosity lol). I haven't even considered bleaching the back again yet because I'm afraid it will only make matters worse.
I've been using good moisturizing/hydrating treatments, oils, etc. on it for about a month now, and my hair is actually looking and feeling pretty good considering what all I put it through. I did used Olaplex in all my processing, so there is some, but not a huge amount of breakage/shedding, although at 1st there was quite a bit of shedding, and some mild breakage around my front hairline, even with the Olpalex added, but no further major breakage has been occurring since I've been giving it so much TLC. Mainly though, it was just really, really, dry and damaged looking because of the processing, and from being so dried out. I've done 3 Olaplex stand alone treatments attempting to repair as much damage as possible, and to try to get my hair to where it will be able to tone to the desired color, and remain in my hair longer than 2 washes, but still the high porosity seems to be an issue.
Purple shampoos will tone my hair some, (especially in the front), to a pretty whitish/silvery color, but if left on longer than just a couple of minutes it picks up a lot of the purple tones, and it isn't on long enough to tone the back, or the back is still too dark to tone, I don't know which. I've tried toning with Wella Color Charm T 18, and also tried T 14, the ash in the T 18 pulled the green tones to my hair, and the blue base in the T14 pulled the blue tones to my hair.
( I've been trying to stay away from using any developer on it at all for awhile but if there was a toner or dye be it semi, demi or permanent like a high lift blonde, or even a box dye or anything that would work without turning my hair a funky color, I'd be willing to give it a try, and skip the goal for whitish/silver right now). I attempted to use the Makki professional Gray color mixed in with conditioner, and it turned my hair blue (The Makki is almost black straight out of the tube, so it's too dark to use without mixing it, and I'd be afraid I'd end up with dark blue hair). but even olive oil toned my hair green.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what else I can do to help decrease the porosity of my hair, and any brands of toners, or direct dyes etc. that I could use that may not turn my hair undesirable colors? I really don't get a chance to enjoy the toners while they are fading out because they are in and out too quickly, plus all the moisturizing/hydrating products I'm using on my hair doesn't help matters, and causes them to come out quicker too. Also do you all think a blue based shampoo would work better than a purple based shampoo on my hair? Thank you. Any suggestions/help appreciated.
EDIT: At home I currently have available-Manic Panic Virgin Snow, Manic Panic Purple Violet, Manic Panic Blue Steel, Makki Professional Gray, Makki Professional Silver-(I tired this one and it did very little on my hair), DIALight - 6.13 Dark Blonde Ash Gold (This was just bought to mix with the DIAlight 9.13 that they ended up being out of after I'd ordered it :(), and DIAlight-9.12 Iridescent Iced Milkshake and I have the 15 v DIACTIVATEUR for the DIAlight. Do you think any of those will work?
by Dollbones13Posted 3 years, 2 months ago
I wouldn't bleach it any more if your hair has already sustained that much damage- it can take up to a month for the extent of the bleach damage to really appear, so I would give it a good long rest and plenty of deep conditioning treatments, and get it trimmed too. It might be worth looking at a darker grey colour? I haven't had much experience with grey, however I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who can suggest a way to make a nice medium/dark grey. I wouldn't put a box dye or any more peroxide on it, just incase. Have you got a picture of the colour it is at the moment? It would help to see what you're working with.
Posted 3 years, 2 months ago
When I overprocessed my hair to the point that it wouldn't hold color, the only solution was cutting off as much as possible and starting over (it was the first of many undercuts).
I don't know of a way to permanently repair damaged hair but I've had some luck with the Aphogee 2-Step Protein Treatment---by "some luck" I mean "it basically glued my hair back together for a while but damaged is damaged." Too much protein can also cause breakage, but if your hair is that porous, protein might be what it needs to hold color longer.
Darker colors might not be a possibility. Sorry this isn't information you wanted. :(
Posted 3 years, 2 months ago
Thank you Dollybones and Zombii for the info.
I actually did the Aphogee 2 step treatment prior to starting any processing at all, and it's not been quite 6 weeks yet to repeat that. I have found out during all this that my thick curly hair doesn't like a lot of protein which is why I just recently started using all non protein hydrating products through out the week-(also those products contain no sulfate, and no silicones either :) ), and I'm only using products with protein in them 1x weekly, (I really hadn't realized how many products I was previously using actually contained protein in some form or another in them, so I separated all my products, invested in some new ones, and started trying it that way, and this way seems to have helped my hair a lot).
This weekend (on scheduled protein day) I washed out any weekly build up with the Aphogee shampoo for damaged hair (which contains keratin), and followed that with the Aphogee 2 minute Keratin Reconstructor, it of course caused my hair to feel very dry, so I've been hydrating it again like crazy with good non protein based products, using good oils etc. on it since then, and I'm happy to report, that my shedding has slowed way down (I have thyroid disease so I'm going to shed some that's a given), but any breakage that I was having is nearly non existent at the moment. Also, my hair looks and feels much stronger, and my strand test shows that the moisture and protein in it are now pretty well balanced.-(with a couple of exceptions that I'll ask you all about at the end of this post), whereas before the weekend keratin shampoo/treatment, my strand tests felt strong, but would appear to stretch to eternity before finally breaking. LOL I think my hair has literally grown 6 inches in the past month just because of stretching. But now it stretches some, and springs right back into position (like a rubber band being stretched and released).
I think a lot of the problems I was having may have been self caused from either using too many not so good hydrating products that also contained protein, or using products that contained the wrong kind of protein that my hair was needing, without actually realizing they were doing more harm than good to my hair. The protein only 1x weekly method I'm now using seems to be working much better.
Before processing my hair I did literally nothing to my hair other than to wash and condition it with whatever products I picked up (they may or may not have contained protein, sulfates, silicones, or whatever in them, I have no clue because I never checked them) then I'd spray a little detangle and gel on it, scrunched up my curls, and I was ready to go, (usually with frizzy, shedding hair that I assumed was all caused by my thyroid disease).
Now, after figuring out for the most part what the heck I'm suppose to be using, or not using, and after tons of research, and asking tons of forum questions-(the knowledge and personal experiences that forum members have to offer is Priceless, so thank you all so much). I'm now paying very close attention to the product's ingredients, and steering away from any products that I know has things in it that aren't good for my hair, and also those that have ingredients in them that my hair doesn't need right now-(based on my strand test results). Even with the damage my hair still looks and feels better than it has for years.
LOL before processing I had never even heard of a strand test, let alone how to do one, and how to balance my hair using the results from one. It's very, very, possible that my moisture/protein balance has been unbalanced for 53 years, until now.
The question I said above that I'd ask in a minute is: When doing a strand test, what does a person's hair need when the strand is stretchy in one part, and breaks easily in another? My thought is it needs both moisture and protein, but in specific areas. So my other question is should the particular products be focused on the particular areas needing protein or moisture. i.e.) if the top of the strand breaks easily should moisture products w/o protein be used on the top, and since the bottom part is stretchy should the bottom portion have products containing protein used on them until the entire strand is balanced appropriately? or should the product I'm using be put on all the hair and not localized to the problem areas?
Here is the link for the pictures: The 1st one is just to show the condition of my hair right now and the 2nd pic where I am holding the ends up to the front of my hair is to show the color variation between the front of my hair, and the back that has the box dye staining. (As you can see the colors aren't too far apart and both are livable for now until I can bleach the back 1 more time to hopefully get it to match the front better, and so it will be light enough to tone as well as the front does with purple shampoo). Also, the front of my hair isn't as white as it appears in the 2nd pic, but is pretty light in color. The color is more of what you see in the natural light in picture 1. http://s567.photobucket.com/user/Crackerjack4u/library/HAIR%20AFTER%20BLEACHING%20FOLDER?sort=2&page=1
Sorry my post ended up being so long. Any info you can offer is always appreciated. Have a wonderful night.
Posted 3 years, 2 months ago
I haven't heard of over-moisturizing and usually just apply moisturizing products to all of my hair (I am bleached out to near platinum right now), but I will put extra protein on certain sections that seem to be breaking easier, so I recommend sectioning if you can to avoid too much protein where it isn't needed.
Don't worry about past unbalanced hair. Hair is hard. I've been dying my hair since I was 14 but only started to "understand" hair when I decided to strip all the box black dye out and go blue at 26. Now I'm 33 and I think I have even less of an idea of what I'm doing than I used to. ;P
I'm glad you're figuring it all out. Getting the results you want is the important part. Good luck. :)
Thanks Zombii, and LOL I don't think I'll ever completely figure it all out, but I'm hopefully now moving in the right direction. I think a lot of it has to do with how our hair is always changing, especially as we age. What might have worked great on our hair yesterday, may not work well today. So it's not you, or us, that has less of an idea, it's our darn stubborn hair that is just refusing to cooperate with the proper treatment lol.
I understand what you're saying , I've also been dying my hair since age 14 due to having a lot of gray hair. When I said I did nothing to my hair prior to this I was referring to as far as protein treatments, products, oils, etc., but I did color my hair for nearly 40 years with box dyes, so I'm not surprised that I'm now dealing with some box dye staining. I suspect my hair probably still needs all the moisture it can get, so I'll just continue to do an all over moisture treatment, and focus applying some protein based products to the areas that appear to need it.
Right now I'm trying to figure out if only using protein based products 1x weekly is going to be enough for my hair, or not, or if I'm going to need to use them more often than that? (I probably won't use actual Keratin ever week on my hair, like I did this past weekend, because it seems so harsh/strong, and drying, compared to some of the other proteins I've used, but I decided to hit it hard with the Keratin to see if it would slow down or stop the breakage, (That's why I did both the damaged hair shampoo, and the 2 minute reconstructor both, and so far it seems to be helping). Probably, unless it starts getting really bad again, I'll either use some other form of protein, or only use 1 of the products containing Keratin, instead of 2. I really do think as of right now I'm good on protein in most areas, (there are, like I asked about before, some strands that show a good balance in like 3/4th of the strand, but breaks easily on the other 1/4th of it. (I can't even say for sure if the part that breaks easily is at the roots, or the ends of my hair, or of it is in the front, back or both areas of my hair, so I need to pay better attention, and remove strands from various areas, so I can figure that part out, and then work on trying to get it balanced correctly). Plus, now that I'm limiting the protein to 1x weekly, I certainly don't want to send my hair too far in the other direction, so I suspect that it's probably going to take awhile to try to find a happy medium. I'm just really glad though that the shedding has slowed way down, and the breakage has stopped, for now. LOL but as we all know, tomorrow it could be right back at it again.
Thanks again for all your help, and if there are things I'm doing, like limiting the protein, or whatever, that I shouldn't please let me know. Have a wonderful night.
Thank you again Zombii. I actually ran across this just the other day. I too thought you couldn't over moisturize your hair, but apparently you can. The issue that occurs because of it is called Hygral Fatigue. Since learning about it, I have read several articles on it, but I ran across a really good article that summarizes what it is, what causes it, and what can be done should you get it etc., that I'll link at the bottom of this comment. From what I'm understanding about it, just as protein overload can occur due to using too much protein in your hair, hygral fatigue can occur from keeping your hair wet too often (the constant swelling, and shrinking can be very damaging to a person's hair), also using frequent moisturizing treatments, or from frequent overnight deep moisturizing treatments, also it can occur from too much moisture, or moisturizing products, and not having enough protein in the hair to prevent the swelling, and shrinking damage that can occur.
With me having high porosity hair-(which is the porosity of hair that hygral fatigue is most likely to occur in), and also now limiting any protein products in my hair to 1x weekly, while wetting my hair frequently (usually daily), and only applying moisturizing products, I will for sure be watching for signs of Hygral Fatigue, and doing everything I can to prevent it from occurring. Right now, I do think my hair still needs moisture, and I found out real quickly that it doesn't like a lot of protein either, so I'm hoping that 1x a week is enough protein in it to prevent HF from occurring. The comments on the articles I read from the people who have had this occur say that it is horrible, leads to a lot of breakage, and that it takes weeks to straighten your hair back out from it. I suspect that hygral fatigue is about like a plant that sits with it's roots in water, and after awhile the roots start to be waterlogged, damaged, begin breaking, etc. So I guess with even something that we would generally consider helpful, just like with anything else, it's still remains all about maintaining the proper balance.
Here's the link for anyone who is interested. https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/home/do-you-over-moisturize-your-hair-understanding-hygral-fatigue/
Posted 3 years, 1 month ago
@Crackerjack Well... damn. Just when I thought I was starting to get it. O_o
Thanks for the article link, really interesting stuff.
Zombii, LOL I completely understand. I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to figure it out. I pick up a tidbit here, and a morsel there, which is probably just enough to be dangerous with. Hopefully one of these days all those little pieces will finally come together, but I just hope my hair can hang on that long. Thanks for all your help. I'm glad you liked the article. Have a wonderful day!!!