Bright goldy orange? French Coganc too dull and coppery, Sunrise Orange too redPosted 4 years, 9 months ago
Hi, so my hair is chemically dyed 8.43 (light copper gold) at the roots each month and I've been colouring the lengths with Adore dyes. My hair really grabs red pigment, but I want more of a true orange so I think I need a more goldy/yellow toned orange to achieve this.
I used to use a mix of Cajun Spice and French Cognac with a dash of Paprika added. A while back, I decided Paprika was much, much too red for me and would give me a colour too-red for my liking even with only a dash added. Then I realised Cajun Spice was also too red/coppery for my liking. I found French Cognac to be the warmest, most orange, closest to gold of the three so I started using just that alone.
Then I decided that I wanted a brighter orange than French Cognac could give me so I got some Adore Sunrise orange and tried mixing it in with my French Cognac.
With Adore Sunrise orange, I got quite similar results to what I got using Manic Panic Electric lava- really surprisingly red. Like, I've never seen either colour turn out that red on anybody else's hair and they certainly don't swatch red at all on paper.
Removing red pigment is no biggie for me anymore as I've mastered vitamin C treatments, but it's still really disappointing that another orange doesn't work for me.
The results I get with French cognac are okay- but not nearly as bright/pigmented as I'd like. And I recently noticed that even French Cognac makes my hair a little more coppery than I'd like. I want a more goldy orange colour than it gives me.
I am of course considering lightening my hair more in order to get brighter/more pigmented results, but I'd like to know if there's another orange vegetable dye that leans more goldy/yellow and therefore might have a chance of giving me the results I'd like?
Sadly the only two yellow toned oranges listed here are Directions Apricot and Manic Panic Sunshine and they're both more like pastel oranges so aren't likely to give me what I want either.
What if you mixed some yellow in? If you added a true not greenish yellow to the adore mix it would lighten it and make it more golden
Fancy meeting you here :p I noticed you're here just before. Haven't visited these forums in ages.
Hmm that's a possibility. If yellow helped French Cognac make my hair more goldy orange, I think it might be too dull still and I don't think 50:50 yellow and Sunrise Orange would be enough to counteract just how red it makes my hair, so I could maybe try a majority of yellow with Sunrise Orange?
But I would be interested in any more gold/yellow toned pre-mixed bright oranges so I don't have to try to fight the red pigments.
Would love to hear from somebody who's tried Adore Sunrise Orange and some other oranges so could compare brightness and red tones.
There are lots of oranges here: http://www.beeunique.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=137_146 and some look more gold in the swatches, but I have no idea how accurate the swatch are and seeing the results with different oranges is just more confusing somehow :/
Would be really helpful for somebody who's used Sunrise orange to directly compare it to other oranges.
Ginger by Adore obviously seems more goldy yellow than Sunrise Orange, but I think it's more of a natural colour so not very bright. I could try mixing some with French Cognac, but I'm quite sure I'd get dullish natural results. Maybe with a brighter orange?
Manic Panic Elecric Tiger Lily seems more goldy yellow than Electric Lava and Sunrise Orange, but I did actually try Electric Tiger Lily and wasn't happy with the results. Maybe I only mixed it with Electric Lava and never tried it one its own? Not sure. I'd consider buying some more of this and trying it again.
Directions apricot is a very goldy yellow only slightly orange colour but it doesn't seem very intense? I'd also consider trying this with a bright orange.
Hm, maybe I should try Electric Tiger Lily again but on its own this time to see how it goes then if it's still comes up too red on my hair try adding Directions Apricot or Adore Ginger?
What about ginger adore with the sunrise color? I think it would give you a really bright yellow orange that isn't too natural, and yep fancy meeting you here :) I have heard and seen really mixed reviews on tiger lily, it seems a bit hit and miss
More ranting to myself here:
So I just realised I still had some Manic Panic Electric Lava and Electric Tiger Lily to compare to my Adore Sunrise Orange.
The Electric Tiger Lily is way too old to apply to my hair, but swatches far more goldy orange than Sunrise Orange- Sunrise looks positively red compared to Electric Tiger Lily. I wish I'd thought to use Electric Tiger Lily on its own when it was new rather than mixing with Electric Lava. The Electric Lava was always going to be horrible for me- it's even redder than the Sunrise Orange.
So who's tried Electric Tiger Lily? Are there any other oranges like this? I wish Adore did a more yellowy orange like Electric Tiger Lily because I much prefer their squeeze bottle form to Manic Panics tubs. I also like diluting my adore colours with conditioner.
And ugh, I have several semi-used colours just sitting here going bad because I'm never going to want to use them as they don't do what I want for my hair :/ Maybe I could give them away to somebody who could get some use out of them?
Sorry @Dizzinea I missed your reply.
"What about ginger adore with the sunrise color" yeah that's a possibility. It would be good to use up my remaining Sunrise Orange and maybe mixing it with a yellow or yellowy orange would produce results I'd like. I could try some Adore Ginger or Directions Apricot or a yellow like you suggested with the remaining Sunrise Orange.
"I have heard and seen really mixed reviews on tiger lily, it seems a bit hit and miss" what have you heard? I'm well open to other suggestions if there's another orange as yellow/goldy but still intense like Tiger Lily seems to be. Manic Panic is more expensive than Adore and I do prefer how Adore do things- so as I said, I really wish Adore had an orange more like Tiger Lily :/
Okay I'm going to buy from Adore Ginger to try with the Sunrise Orange. Found some on ebay for just under $15 AUD (about 7 pounds) shipped to Australia.They're usually around 5 pounds each and I'm not going to find shipping to Australia for only 2 pounds, so under $15 AUD is a very good price. The cheapest I can find Manic Panic shipped is just over $20AUD (around 10 pounds) and even though they're the same quantity (118ml), you don't get as much out of Manic Panic dyes because they're not pigmented enough to be diluted like Adore.
If Adore Ginger works well with Sunrise Orange, I'll probably just buy more of both instead of buying Electric Tiger Lily as it would be more cost effective.
Thank you for your help @Dizzinea :)
Well I've had people try tiger lily and have it look very natural, or not last long, and a couple friends have it not even really take, it's like there cotton candy pink or pretty flamingo, some tubs are awesome some are kinda crap, now granted these experiences were from a few years ago, hers what I think, try strand tests, and another idea is if your hair is stained ginger/ orangish just strand test straight yellow over it, the existing red/orange tones with yellow ( ussually very transparent) over it may be enough to get what you want and if it goes too yellow you can add orange
by katoxPosted 4 years, 9 months ago
Adore Ginger and Direction's Apricot.
(BoOop!}--- \\(' v ')//
by spookiPosted 4 years, 9 months ago
Adore ginger fades and dilutes BRIGHT and not at all natural looking. If you use it full strength it will look natural but it fades pretty quickly. https://www.haircrazy.com/timelines/spooki/2014/11/20/54139/ this was mostly ginger (with paprika and sunrise orange). It faded to https://www.haircrazy.com/timelines/spooki/2014/11/23/54179/ this.
Sunrise Orange is 100% orange, if it's coming out too red you probably have too much red in your base still. Maybe try just yellow as yellow and red make orange. A warmer yellow like Pravana or Directions Daffodil might work better for you.
Thanks @Katox :) Could you please do a comparison of Adore Ginger and Directions Apricot as I've got Ginger now and I'd like to know the difference :)
@Spooki, Sunrise Orange is a red-based orange as opposed to being a neutral/true orange or a yellow based orange. I thought it was a true/neutral orange and it was just my hair pulling red (which is does) until I compared it to Electric Tiger Lily then I could see it really does have a slight red base. See this swatch comparison I made- http://i.imgur.com/qaY1fgh.jpg
But also, as mentioned, my hair has a tendency to grab onto red pigment so slightly red dyes (like sunrise orange) go surprisingly quite red on my hair- more red than on most people. So yeah, I wouldn't expect Sunrise Orange to show up as Red on your hair. I see you used both Paprika and Sunrise Orange on your hair for those photos- on my hair, I think that mix would have shown up quite red on my hair. I've just given away my bottle of paprika as even adding just a drop seems to be enough to make my results too red.
My base has never been red at all when I've applied Sunrise Orange or Paprika- it's usually a wishy-washy gingery blonde- mostly yellow tones with some orange. Even when my hair has been ash to start with, dyes still show up redder on my hair. It's just like that for whatever reason. My natural colour was no red or gold whatsoever in it- it's completely ash with a horrible slightly green tinge to it, so go figure.
Also, it looks like you had a bleached base which was probably at least 2 levels lighter than mine is, so obviously that would make your results different than mine. But thank you :) And thanks also for the yellow recommendations.
OLD PICTURE (please excuse the no makeup and old robe). This is what my hair looked like after applying Sunrise Orange to the ends of it over a base of French Cognac a few months ago. See how it's redder at the ends? http://i.imgur.com/QjE4nwa.png I got it out easily enough with Vitamin C, but decided my hair must just grab red out of nowhere somehow as I didn't yet realize that Sunrise Orange does in fact have a red base and my hair was just amplifying that.
by katoxPosted 4 years, 9 months ago
I can do a paper swatch for you of Ginger and Apricot next time I'm on a proper computer if you like?
(BoOop!}--- \\(' v ')//
by vividamnesiaPosted 4 years, 9 months ago
Adore Ginger with a touch french cognac or sunrise orange mix in a light colored plastic/glass bowl direct dyes are WYSIWYG till you get the color looking like how you want.
Make money doing something you enjoy!
That would be great thank you @katox :)
So yesterday I coloured my hair with a mix of Adore Ginger, French Cognac and Sunrise Orange and the results were disappointing- they hardly gave me any colour difference at all let alone the degree of bright orangeness I was hoping for. I always mix my Adore dyes with conditioner, and have gotten brighter/more saturated results on hair with a similar base using French Cognac and conditioner alone. I expected results to be more brightly orange after experiencing Sunrise Orange turn out very brightly orange (though too red-orange for me) on a similar base, but more goldy because of the Ginger. It certainly did turn out goldy, but just dull- not very dramatic results at all.
I recently accidentally dyed my hair an auburn colour (medium brown with very red-red tones) and stripped the colour out successfully using vitamin C. I was left with a dark blonde (level 8) with no red or orange tones, but a yellow cast. This is the base I dyed from. I know that a lighter base will always give brighter results, but as I said I've gotten brighter results with French Cognac before on a similar base that was never much lighter than this.
So here's a before and after of Adore French Cognac, Ginger and Sunrise Orange applied over a dark blonde (level 8) : http://i.imgur.com/D6dHV84.jpg
Disappointing! The photos aren't that accurate (my before wasn't nearly as warm- it had no traces of red or orange in it- it was just a slightly yellowish dark blonde and my after is actually more of a yellow orange- not as coppery red as it looks) but there really wasn't much change sadly and the results aren't nearly as bright orange as I wanted. Even with my base being darkish, I expected more based off past results on similar base levels.
I think the problem might have been my mix ratios and not leaving it long enough. On hair no lighter than my before base was, I've gotten much brighter more saturated colour results from French Cognac mixed with conditioner alone- maybe I've used less conditioner in the past and left it longer (this time I left it for 2 hours, but I think I've left French Cognac in for 4 hours or more before). And maybe I needed more Sunrise Orange and less French Cognac? A lack of protein could also have been a factor.
I used almost equal parts of French Cognac and Ginger- but probably more French Cognac and then like half as much Sunrise Orange. No idea how much I actually used or what the actual ratios were (I'm not very exact about this, obviously) but to give you an idea of the ratios it might have been something like 3 table spoons French Cognac, 2 and 1/2 table spoons Ginger, and 1 table spoon Sunrise Orange mixed with about as much conditioner as all the dye together so maybe 6-7 tablespoons (I usually use about half conditioner with my French Cognac, but maybe I used more this time?). Those quantities are very rough guestimates as I actually have no idea how much I used (maybe more, maybe less) but the ratios are about right. I use enough to saturate my hair really well (made up more with about the same ratios when I ran out). I also normally try to do a protein treatment the day or so before dying and mix my French Cognac with protein conditioner in an attempt to get the colour to take better. This time, I didn't use any protein before dying and mixed my dyes with protein-free conditioner instead- so maybe the protein really was working for increasing the pigment taken and not using protein this time is part of the reason for the not very pigmented results.
I'm all out of Sunrise Orange (I used everything I had left) so I've just ordered a new bottle. Hopefully it will be here at the end of next week, if not the week after. When it arrives, I’ll try again. Next time, I think I'll try using more Sunrise Orange (maybe 50:50 Sunrise Orange and Ginger and only a little French Cognac?) and less conditioner (absolutely less than half!) and leave it on for longer (4+ hours). And I'll do a protein treatment before and mix with protein conditioner. Hopefully all that stuff will help! But any advise would be appreciated. Sorry for the novel :/
by PiscinePosted 4 years, 9 months ago
I've been following your thread and honestly just feel like you're overthinking it. I think your base is just not light enough to give you that pop of luminescence in the color that you are looking for. Even if you only lightened your base by like half a level I think you'd see a difference.
Sweet freedom whispered in my ear...you're a butterfly...and butterflies are free to fly...fly away...
@Piscine I'm sure you're right that if I had my hair lightened even half a level, I'd get brighter/more pigmented result with vegetable dyes. I am considering doing this. Maybe when my roots grow it again and I go to the salon to get them done. Maybe an 8.43 with 20 vol developer on my roots for a little bit then brought through the lengths for a while?
BUUUUUUT did you read what I said about having gotten brighter/more pigmented results with about the same base level in the past? And did you see how bright Sunrise Orange alone turned out on the same level hair? So I think factors like the ratios, leave on time and lack of protein are probably some of the reasons why I got less bright results.
And ha, yes. Overthinking is what I do :p OCD and all.